tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post6268517092116850399..comments2024-01-21T09:25:55.810+00:00Comments on Civilian Reader: DNF: “Assassin’s Apprentice” by Robin Hobb (Voyager)Civilian Readerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-77874611434866449342020-12-14T19:41:09.503+00:002020-12-14T19:41:09.503+00:00Late to this conversation... but you're right....Late to this conversation... but you're right. You helped me to justify quitting reading it too. I made it 200 pages in, and it doesn't get any better. "Melodrama" is a good description. "Twee" also. I would add that the plotline and the characters are two-dimensional, predictable, and kludgy.Me toohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10376520756814109222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-10929454310242753432020-05-08T09:48:33.145+01:002020-05-08T09:48:33.145+01:00Yeah RH's books to tend to be pretty slow, but...Yeah RH's books to tend to be pretty slow, but that's actually a big part of why I love the books, because of the kind of slow burn feeling they give me. I don't agree with the melodramatic thing but maybe that's because I'm both a naturally melodramatic person and also tend to emotionally bond with characters in books very strongly.<br /><br />Personally, I'm a huge fan of Robin Hobb, and she's my favourite author of all time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-73467357727286483912013-03-28T11:51:52.400+00:002013-03-28T11:51:52.400+00:00Ah, so the Tawny Man trilogy is set later, when Fi...Ah, so the Tawny Man trilogy is set later, when Fitz is older? Does that mean it's more in the style of the first chapter of this novel? Because that's what made me start this in the first place - it was a great opening chapter. Interesting to know that it's not essential to read this trilogy to enjoy the next one, too. Considering I have book one in the next trilogy, maybe I'll just go straight to that one.Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-67241635949943366882013-03-27T22:47:27.561+00:002013-03-27T22:47:27.561+00:00I read the Tawny Man Trilogy, and liked it. But wh...I read the Tawny Man Trilogy, and liked it. But what I got from the bits of the first trilogy that get referenced was that I *didn't* want to read it. Because it made fabulous backstory, but it sounded, as you say, a lot more derivative plot-wise -- and I really didn't feel like reading another "Young boy grows up to be special" story. Nothing I have read yet, including by great fans of the Farseer books, has changed my mind. Fitz worked as an older character, but I couldn't see what would have made him interesting when he was young.<br /><br />(I actually referred to this in the first draft of the guest post I'm supposed to be writing - it's close to finished! - before I decided I was going to talk about a completely different aspect of worldbuilding)Lenora Rosehttp://lenora-rose.dreamwidth.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-67464487428803998192013-03-22T10:43:31.604+00:002013-03-22T10:43:31.604+00:00The atmospheric writing was absolutely present in ...The atmospheric writing was absolutely present in the first chapter, which is why I picked it up in the first place. And the quotation from Chade in the review is another great example of Hobb's prose at its best. But the rest just failed to live up to my expectations, sadly.Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-9395598092049797842013-03-22T00:38:14.371+00:002013-03-22T00:38:14.371+00:00Uhmmm your review has made me think about how I re...Uhmmm your review has made me think about how I regard Hobb's books. I would not describe myself as a dedicated fan of her books, yet I've read all her books but the Liveship Traders (but own them)and plan on picking up her latest one just as soon as I can. Yet at the same time, I can't say I've never had qualms about her writing - or, like you, about the melodramatic tendencies of her characters. <br /><br />It's strange that you should consider Fitz highly melodramatic, though, since I tend to associate Hobb's other series, The Soldier Son Trilogy, with melodrama. And generally speaking, I think it's considered to be her most convoluted series. Yet despite any reservations about it, I read all three books. There was something about the world-building, and Hobb's ability to imbue her prose with a certain atmosphere which I feel inexplicably attracted to, that meant I could not stop before the end even if it was a bit tedious on the way. <br /><br />Strangely, I seem to recall I read Assassin's Apprentice and then went on to read the whole of the Soldier Son trilogy before coming back to Farseer. So maybe there's something into the fact that Farseer is better series of the two that made it more endearing (accounting also for my having acclimatized to Hobb's rather particular writing style). Once I got back to it though, I really began to get the books. They were slow, yes, but they definitely built once the over-arching plot really starting appearing. And I think I just came to accept that they would be more about the characters and their emotional-development than your average fantasy. The Tawny Man trilogy was even better, I thought. <br /><br />So if you really couldn't stand her writing that badly, then yeah, you probably made the right call stopping now. But I would still recommend giving it another go, with a more informed mindset, and sticking it through at least the first book. LEChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03663931400431402150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-39804425608057621402013-03-14T17:29:20.075+00:002013-03-14T17:29:20.075+00:00Top bar, there's a "Reviews" tab. Ha...Top bar, there's a "Reviews" tab. Has all of the links. Click out of the pop-up review/post first.<br />(And welcome!)Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-7108092605785795432013-03-14T12:56:23.741+00:002013-03-14T12:56:23.741+00:00New here. How can I click directly to more of you...New here. How can I click directly to more of your reviews?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-16048368231861167102013-03-14T09:45:01.635+00:002013-03-14T09:45:01.635+00:00You're not the only person who has thought &qu...You're not the only person who has thought "twee" was more derogatory than it is. Many people on Twitter seem to have thought it was an ultimate insult to a book, but it's really not that strong a word... It's a very British word, to be fair, but even some Brits have assumed it was meant more harshly.<br /><br />This is the wonderful thing about being a reader/fan of fantasy: opinions can vary so wildly, from book to book. Where some people see charm, others see twee. Where some people see "grim and gritty", others will see gratuitous violence. SFF is a very big camp, and nobody should be afraid of expressing their opinions. And I think SFF fans are, for the main, more open to discussing opposing views - as has happened here.<br /><br />And I agree with you and Maz about Fitz's emotional state being influenced by a sense of abandonment and self-loathing, but for me those themes just didn't come through, as they were buried by the things that were irritating me. C'est la vie. One day, maybe, when I too catch up with my ever-growing TBR mountain, I'll revisit the book. You never know...Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-13069224456196365462013-03-14T09:37:39.523+00:002013-03-14T09:37:39.523+00:00Could be. Will give it a try - what do you think a...Could be. Will give it a try - what do you think about the Fool trilogy? Others have suggested it's better...?Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-18164396495856581692013-03-13T23:19:13.392+00:002013-03-13T23:19:13.392+00:00I know I probably read to much into your review bu...I know I probably read to much into your review but like I said earlier it really hit a nerve for some reason. I'm not that big a fan of Robin Hobb and haven't read anything of hers after the Fool trilogy (although I'm planning to...like I'm planning to read about a zillion other books :D ) but I still think that the Farseer trilogy is really good fantasy.<br /> <br />Yes, the main character can be a bit whiny but then again that's not really uncommon. And like M.Williams mentioned he's a kid that's been abandoned living with not so nice people(could be also why he doesn't pick up on all assassin tests and such...kids generally don't know a lot of these things except in YA books where it's normal for 16 year olds to beat seasoned soldiers and assassins :P ). <br /><br />But really that's a part of the charm of the book, he's not all that capable or powerful or smart and yet he gets along. He gets the crap beaten out of him a lot and still goes on.<br /><br />As for the twee issue I apologize if I misunderstood. English is not my first language and I haven't encountered that word before. From what I could find it does have a derogative connotation but maybe I misjudged its severity. Vinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415635006140238971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-407753326344756422013-03-13T22:20:19.498+00:002013-03-13T22:20:19.498+00:00I'm surprised that something so formative as h...I'm surprised that something so formative as having been abandoned by his mother and grandfather and then essentially ignored by his father, who dies, is overlooked as a factor in the boy's emotional state and ability to view events objectively. I'm also a bit worried, wondering whether all heroes are expected to hit the ground running as emotionally sound, pro-active, clever people with trustworthy perceptions. I recommend you don't read any Kazuo Ishiguro.<br /><br />I also wonder whether people relate better to "revenge" or "abuse" backstories as opposed to ones in which the trauma is less obvious.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11434208987678485290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-7093393644996019042013-03-13T22:13:54.650+00:002013-03-13T22:13:54.650+00:00It's funny too since there is an animal which ...It's funny too since there is an animal which figures prominently later on.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11434208987678485290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-21428060199905087522013-03-13T22:12:16.713+00:002013-03-13T22:12:16.713+00:00Fitz is an unreliable narrator, since his view of ...Fitz is an unreliable narrator, since his view of events is skewed by his strong belief that nobody loves him and that he is not valuable. But I have read the whole book (:P) all three of them in fact, several times.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11434208987678485290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-48904926330874152312013-03-13T22:09:51.638+00:002013-03-13T22:09:51.638+00:00Personally I preferred Farseer, but Liveship might...Personally I preferred Farseer, but Liveship might be more your thing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11434208987678485290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-5912492645990973702013-03-13T20:50:54.447+00:002013-03-13T20:50:54.447+00:00That's a rather odd reading of the review, but...That's a rather odd reading of the review, but ok...Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-64931372960676024822013-03-13T20:50:02.916+00:002013-03-13T20:50:02.916+00:00I am intrigued by the Liveship books. I just tend ...I am intrigued by the Liveship books. I just tend to prefer things like the assassins/thieves genre, which is why I started with this one.Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-64486697426583416332013-03-13T20:47:47.755+00:002013-03-13T20:47:47.755+00:00I know what you mean about the training montages b...I know what you mean about the training montages being generally over-done, I absolutely agree.Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-80554605114706783932013-03-13T20:46:16.513+00:002013-03-13T20:46:16.513+00:00Elspeth, you're absolutely right (and put that...Elspeth, you're absolutely right (and put that more succinctly than I did). The example of "melodrama" that I included the review is just such an example: it's not abandonment, it's him failing to follow direction from the person he supposedly thinks of as some-sort-of father figure. Chade is clear with him (not to mention it being rather obvious to begin with), so the way Fitz reacts to this way was just too much for me.Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-3358018165265788682013-03-13T20:43:55.933+00:002013-03-13T20:43:55.933+00:00Fair point. For me, the prose style was twee.
I g...Fair point. For me, the prose style was twee.<br /><br />I guess the thing that really struck me after reading your comments was that the themes of abandonment and self-loathing didn't jump out at me. They were there, sure, but they always slipped from my mind. The "twee" feel and the issues I had with how Fitz was written and portrayed just buried all of this for me. These are themes that can create powerful, affecting novels, but what I read in "Assassin's Apprentice" just failed to generate this sort of strong feeling for me.Civilian Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10978134983999101494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-76468112917730470512013-03-13T20:39:02.576+00:002013-03-13T20:39:02.576+00:00The only thing I got out of this review is "R...The only thing I got out of this review is "Robin Hobbe needs more puppies in her books." And 20% is hardly enough of a chance to judge an entire book. I've read many a book that has sucked up until 40% or so when the story really gets going. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-84243722045298230652013-03-13T20:37:13.053+00:002013-03-13T20:37:13.053+00:00I got the abandonment, but not the self-loathing. ...I got the abandonment, but not the self-loathing. I just wanted to give Fitz a shake and tell him to get over himself.Elspeth Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00664067112502510349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-6970534459372115182013-03-13T20:35:06.344+00:002013-03-13T20:35:06.344+00:00You did, and for the record, I made a conscious ch...You did, and for the record, I made a conscious choice not to dwell on Gair's lessons, because it's been done a bajillion times. I thought I'd given enough clues that he'd been practising in secret since he was 10 that I could get away with focusing more on his relationships than his studies. But no matter, everyone takes their own impressions from a story, and these comments are supposed to be about Robin Hobb's book, not mine, so I'm stopping there.Elspeth Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00664067112502510349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-49512302615467863672013-03-13T20:24:50.216+00:002013-03-13T20:24:50.216+00:00You did say "the whole novel is on the twee s...You did say "the whole novel is on the twee side" which is strange to me, since it deals with such dark topics as abandonment and self-loathing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11434208987678485290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25675853.post-57939299181887999362013-03-13T19:49:19.790+00:002013-03-13T19:49:19.790+00:00In regards to the two sections you quoted - I can ...In regards to the two sections you quoted - I can see you had difficulty understanding Fitz' reaction and found it overwrought and melodramatic. However it is the typical response of someone who has been abandoned by their parents and feels they do not belong and are unloved. He had begun to feel valuable and accepted in Chade's company, and over-reacted when he thought that was being taken away from him. I am acquainted with real-life examples of this type of trauma and it felt very real and understandable to me. Robin Hobb portrays trauma very well in Liveship also, and I would not be surprised to learn she actually knows someone who has suffered abandonment, abuse, or something along those lines.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11434208987678485290noreply@blogger.com